I. A foreword.
Ewka is the nickname of a 60+ year old woman who has been involved in astral travelling for about 40 years. She is still an active medical anesthesiologist. She definitely surpasses my knowledge and skills, and what will probably be interesting to many of you is that Ewka is a member of the „Blue” travellers. We have known each other for about seven years. We had a phone conversation, a part of which you can learn in this post.
Please keep in mind that the references to “Greens” that Ewka used do not apply to all “Greens” and we should not look at everyone as Ewka described, because most “Greens” have never evolved to the extent of Ewka’s “Green” friends.
II. How did you learn about OOBE experience?
From my mother. She knew what lucid dreaming was. I come from a very small town in Pomerania. Some people, neighbours, knew that it was possible to have dreams which we created. My mother told me when I was still a little girl that dreams in which we realize that we are in a dream are normal. She had experienced it, and after she said it, I began to. I assume you were asking about books, though. The first time I held a Robert Monroe book in my hands I was a college student. Even though I had the book published in English I couldn’t wait to find a break in my schedule that I could fill with reading this book. Unfortunately the book disappointed me. Robert’s ideas or approach were right on, but he wasn’t writing for the kind of a traveller I was. I missed the dose of emotion that was necessary for me at the time to properly understand the Astral. Today I do not need it any more, because I understand many processes which take place in this harmonious place.
III. What were physical travellers' meetings like in the Communist time?
These were difficult times for the spiritual development. Socialism equaled atheism. People who sought a path of rebellion back then strongly stood for the Catholic Church. There was simply no room for travellers who were a threat to both sides. So there was no way to reach a wide range of travellers with the help of the media. I believe that many travellers were left without contact with others. The loneliness in this profession can kill. Fortunately, no services ever took an official interest in us. If it had been otherwise, I probably would have lost my license to practice because I organized monthly meetings for travellers where we discussed a lot. But we also drank a lot of alcohol and smoked a lot of cigarettes. The meetings I organized were attended by up to twenty people or so. Many of them were scattered all over Poland. Looking back on it now, it may not have been the most productive period of my life, but it was certainly one of the happiest.
IV. III. As a physician anesthesiologist, you have extensive knowledge of how to bring the human body into altered states of consciousness. Can you talk about what and how you have experimented with?
Will you feel disappointed if I don’t satisfy your curiosity on this topic? I believe that external stimulation induced by chemicals is not the right path for travellers.
V. IV. What methods did you use to leave your body?
At first there were lucid dreams in which we jumped down to slightly deeper levels. We came up with the idea of meditating during them, which usually threw us into Limu where the energy levels were much lower and less malleable. There we got rid of parts of our astral bodies and by overcoming the inter-area vacuum we reached other regions, including the second space. Hence the name, Limu was the first space for us and the Transitional Area the second. In Area Two various beings taught us about our physical bodies in relation to astral journeys. The natural step was to discover methods of intermittent sleep. Before going to bed we meditated for about half an hour with intentions for the astral body. Then we slept for 4 to 6 hours, awakened our physical bodies and meditated again for about half an hour. Then we would lie down and on a very shallow sleep phase we would wait for a vibration or a point of shift in consciousness. So sometimes consciousness was interrupted, and sometimes it was continuously working. We would flow out of our physical bodies while humming mantric melodies. The Interstate – I like that name a lot – was called subphysics. We were not able to explore the subtle changes that occurred when the Guardians came into play. We learned about how to understand this pattern from the ones you called the “Greens”.
VI. So, were there „Greens” among you?
At that time, of course, we didn’t use that nomenclature, but yes, I knew two people who, according to your categorization, belonged to the “Green” group. They were a couple, a married couple who loved each other very much, I felt their bond strongly. I could feel it. Their path was not a straight one, before they came across each other very many coincidences had to happen, which step by step formed a path. This is what they told me, but I will skip the story. I have never been romantic, but the way they explained to me how many emotions work and how they affect each other, how they accumulate and how they can be used was a melody to my ears.
I had been travelling for about 5-6 years at the time. My travels were subtle and mainly based on the senses. It was difficult for me to catch the common factors of these journeys because I thought that each trip was unique and nothing connected them to one another. Still, I absorbed everything I experienced like a sponge. I did not analyze it, I did not try to qualify different phenomena, because I did not understand them. This “green” couple, whom I met at a symposium in Gdynia in the 1980s, told me that they knew about my travels and that they could help me if I wanted. They were also doctors, now no longer with us. I found our conversations fascinating because they had a completely different perspective on the spaces I was exploring. I will never forget how they drew for me on paper the radiation fields and how to use them. That drawing was an intricate work of art. For me it was a leap of light because I would never have come up with such complex concepts on my own. Of course, this knowledge alone did not do much for me. I had to process the concept and it wasn’t until a few years later that I began to move smoothly through the various fields of radiation. It was also fascinating how easily they formulated their thoughts, theses, concepts, philosophies. It was as if they were not creating them in their minds, but merely recreating them from the layers of their subconscious. The way they talked and thought about emotions. How they named and qualified them. Let me remind you that in Poland at that time there was simply filth and deep, cold grayness. Emotions were suppressed. They were then about my age. Of course I felt their uniqueness, not even only as travelers but also as people. It was clear that they were not from here. They just were. They were guests in the society. According to their words, this was their last incarnation cycle and they are planning to return to their origins after they finish what they are currently [in their present life] doing.
Their stories were usually very technical, scientific, very detailed This works so, so, and so. That one works so and so. Combining this with that will be so and so with no exaggeration They had a knack for travelling and I and my friends whom I later introduced to this couple felt it, so they were our first reliable source of guidance according to which we could systematize our own knowledge and put together a jigsaw puzzle.
People say that the first step is the most important. This is rubbish! The first step is the most important, but in the right direction. Without that, you will enter the forest thinking you are exploring Paris. Such lanterns that you happen to be are necessary. Whoever thinks otherwise or doesn’t understand it hasn’t grown up to be a traveler, because it’s not an art to invent the wheel over and over again. We all reach the destination only when all of us will move in the same direction. It took me many years to understand this and to understand the difference between egocentric consciousness and collective consciousness.
VII. VI. How do you see current social changes based on young people as well as travellers themselves?
In spite of people who are my age, I believe that the youth of today are no worse, less moral and less intelligent than we were when we were young. There have never been so many young, creative people in the history of the world. They are the ones who will change what will be beyond the reach of travellers. They will shape a world in which new ideas and hopefully, in time, new moral laws will be awakened. And when it comes strictly to travellers, I think they are troubled by exactly the same problems that we were. The differences that are noticeable to me are mainly in the nomenclature. I could never think of such a nice and flexible name as the Guardians. For us they were the Lords of the other space. The terminology Interstate didn’t exist either, we called it a second space. The third space was the Transitional Area. The fourth space was the exteriors of your Transitional Area. The name Limu was not given by humans and has been used for a long time, so we knew it, except that we wrote it down as Lymu. Kamo was used and spelled as it is now, with reference to your article about the Entrance Gates. So all the differences I talked about are not significant differences, just a sign of time. And we didn’t use that strange abbreviation MHS (My Higher Self) either, for us it was just a supersoul, although I understand why you strongly avoid terms related to religions.
VIII. A large group of my readers are people who are making their first steps in their travels. Is there anything you'd like to tell them?
The heart of each person is rhythmically and constantly pointing the way to the understanding that physicality is a temporary mirage. A substitute subject. It is just a matter of listening to yourself and opening your mind to what is new and unknown. Because astral world is different than the otherness which our limited brains are able to imagine. You have to be ready to fight because travelling is a fight. Very uneven, because we are fighting against ourselves. With your beliefs, with your weaknesses and with limitations of your physical body. You have to be brave, because courage is a compass among the ambiguities we encounter. And then again and again we reach the barriers and we break through them and we overcome them. We wipe away the tears. Sometimes tears of bitterness, sometimes tears of happiness. We keep fighting. The body bleeds, we lose meaning, but we must find it every time, for the love of life and for freedom. And we get up again, shake it off, and keep fighting. Because the way this system works is that it is supposed to be hard. It is supposed to hurt. It is supposed to make blood flow. Otherwise we wouldn’t learn anything. When we understand this, a mountain begins to appear in front of us. Then we give ourselves time to rest and put our thoughts together.
And then let’s climb that stony, very rough mountain that will strip away our ego step by step. Higher and higher. Then we find out who we are and how much we have been deceived [by ego]. We learn how to love and how to let others love us. Because love has to be received, and mankind is not yet capable of that. Such complete love can only be given when we look at our loved one standing naked, without ego. To be able to receive full love, two people have to get rid of this repulsion, the giver and the taker have to do it. Only then can we speak of love, which is something more than a collection of biochemical reactions.
You know, I’m an idealist and a perfectionist. I believe that what can be done can always be done better. But you have to have the resources to be able to do anything, especially when your goal reaches high above the clouds. And for humanity, the only resource is conscious people, guided by even more conscious people, who are all different kinds of consumers of the Astral. From Mentalists, Traveller-spiritualists, Oneironauts to Obenauts. All are needed, because the global consciousness we are striving for will never have one colour. Besides, it cannot have one colour. If it did, the goal would not be achieved. It is said that the place on the podium is one. You can’t pack all of humanity in there unless we are one organization – that’s the only way we can all fit in there. And if anyone thinks that it is not spirituality but galloping technocracy that will make humanity safe, he is a short-sighted fool.
At my age and in my perspective, certain meanings need to be generalized as Buddhism has done. Not to say that sleeping 4 or 5 hours and controlling the sleepless state for an hour will get you to the next point. You have to generalize and say: interrupted sleep is the front door. You have to compress meanings and use difficult words, although when I was young I didn’t understand the language of old people. It was complex, complicated, encrypted. Now I understand it and I know that at a certain age you have to start compressing, because when one block is missing, the tower starts to crumble. Fewer pieces means fewer stumbles. And time crushes subjective ideas. You, your friends, and all new generation travellers are supposed to nitpick They are supposed to hit the table and say: “check.” To curse with joy and view every grain from every possible angle. To ask questions and fearlessly accept answers. Do what you do. Experience, survive, cry, jump for joy, love yourself. This must flow through you, this is the only way you to be free. And when you are free and have gained a baggage of wisdom then you will recognize that you need to compress the meanings and make room for others. Be not as a whole map, but only as a signpost, because the new generations have to learn for themselves, that is the meaning of their existence. It must be their experiences just as the present ones are yours. Your experiences will be a flag that you will firmly plant in the ground and say: “we succeeded, you will succeed too”. My flag is firmly planted and there is plenty of room around it. Now it is your turn, and I will be happy to watch these processes from the sidelines.
Thanks to Wejsza & Bratu for the translation.